THE IAN ISBISTER INTERVIEWS NO.2 - RAY STEWART

In the second instalment of The Ian Isbister Interviews, Ian caught up with ex-United and West Ham legend Ray Stewart.

Q: You signed for Dundee United on a Schoolboy Form in May 1973. Who was involved from United at that time and did you have offers from other clubs?

A - There was a scout called Chick McNaughton, who was also the Bankfoot Juniors Manager. I remember it was Chick who also signed Paul Sturrock as well. Chick chased me for a while to sign for United. I had opportunities to go elsewhere, but I decided to give it a go and went to train with United. Mr McLean, we say Wee Jim now but it was always Mr McLean back then, he showed a significant interest in me and came and watched me in games. He actually came to the family home to get me to sign. He even had a bet with my Dad that I would eventually sign for United. I then decided after a lot of discussion to sign for Dundee United. For one reason, Jim McLean, and secondly the opportunities for a young boy like myself to play. It was also a help that I wouldn’t have to go too far to train. I was more of a St Johnstone fan, I still am, but United were the local team. I just wanted to be a footballer and was desperate to get started. Manchester United, Rangers, Hibs and Manchester City were interested too. I actually ended up looking through the Shoot football magazine and checking the size of club’s squads. I saw Manchester United and Rangers has up to 50 players, but Dundee United had 18-20 players. I thought I’d take the opportunity to play more. Jim McLean promised me the chance and I could see he was an honest man so that was the best choice.

Q: Signing your first professional contract with United at the end of 1975, were you still confident that United was the right team for you?

A - There were still other teams, and I knew I’d move on eventually, but being at United was still the best chance of playing regular first-team football. I was on the fringes of the reserve side and the first team and was training with the likes of Frank Kopel, Walter Smith and Archie Knox, guys you could really learn alongside. Wee Jim liked an excellent mix of young and experienced players to balance out the team. You were always learning. I remember they arranged a reserve game against Rangers and Tommy McLean was up against me. It was just a friendly match so they’d actually asked Tommy to guide me through it. He spent the whole game talking me through when to run, when to pass, when to get tight on him etc. That’s how you learned in those days. We had some great players at the time I was at Tannadice. Hegarty, Narey, Sturrock, Dodds. Every year the team just got better and better.

Q: You’ve spoken very highly of Jim McLean in the past. How influential was he in the early days of your career?

A: He played a huge part in it, and I’ve always respected him for that. Even now, he’s still Mr McLean to me. He was disciplined and could be really hard on players, including me. However, that suited me. It pushed me on to strive for more. He once said to me, ‘The day I stop shouting at you is the day you should really be worried about’. In other words, if he didn’t think you were worth it, he wouldn’t bother with you. He’d have us doing duties around the stadium like cleaning boots and tidying up, but it just made me work harder. A lot of what I learned from his managerial style I used when I was a manager, and it taught me lessons in life I’ve never forgotten.

Q: Making your debut for United in the League Cup against Celtic in September 1976, aged just 16. What can you remember about that game, and how was it marking a certain Kenny Dalglish?

A: Wee Jim played me in midfield that day, probably to give me a bit more space and time on the ball. I actually had a decent game, and I didn’t really overthink about playing up against Kenny. I must have done well though as the Celtic game was on Wednesday and I was then picked again for the Saturday game. I was then left out the team for a few weeks, even though I’d done okay those 2 games. That was typical of Wee Jim though. It was his way of keeping your feet on the ground, and letting you know you hadn’t made it yet!

Q: By May 1977 you’re now part of the Scotland Under-21 side. What were your experiences of that side?

A: We had players like Alec McLeish, Willie Miller, Dave Narey and Davie Dodds. A lot of good players. Andy Roxburgh was the coach of the 21’s at that time. Wee Jim always liked his players being selected for Internationals. I think it improved you and gave you different experiences as a player. Plenty of those players went on to bigger things. I played quite a few games and always enjoyed it.

Q: In the 1978-79 season, you played in all but 2 league matches. United eventually finished 3rd, but we were actually top when they played their last league game of the season. Eventual winners Celtic, and 2nd place Rangers had games in hand to play due to postponements. Going through that season did you think United could win the league?

A: I always went into every competition feeling we could win it. You hear managers saying as long as we get 40 points and are safe then that’s the priority, but for me, I always set out to win. Even when I joined West Ham, I said we’ll win trophies. With the FA Cup win in 1980, I was confident throughout all the games that we’d get to Wembley and win it. United had a great squad going into that season. You had guys like McAlpine, Heggy, Narey Luggy etc. Excellent players. Maybe others wouldn’t want to say it, but I was always a confident player and felt we would do well.

Q: You won the Scottish Professional Footballers Association Young Player of the Year. Was it a surprise when you won?

A: I was shocked. There was a lot of outstanding young players around in Scotland at that time, and I wasn’t giving it much thought. In those days you’d hear it through the media if you’d win the award. They would contact you to let you know you’d won and to get a picture. If I remember right, I think I was in London by then so I wasn’t thinking about it. Paul Hegarty won the Player of the Year award that year too, so it was both United players. Wee Jim was delighted with that!

Q: Signing for West Ham United in 1979, were you aware they were watching you and was it an easy decision to move to Upton Park?

A: It took a good few weeks for the deal to go through eventually. I think West Ham made an initial bid, which they thought was too low and turned down. Wee Jim called me into his office and asked if I would be interested in moving to West Ham. I said as far as I was concerned it was the best league in the world and I wanted to prove myself at the highest level. Gordon Wallace let me know about the club turning down the initial offer, and I thought my chance had probably gone. I just thought I’d better carry on playing as usual and maybe another chance might come. I then got a call from Jim McLean at home to say they were leaving me out of the next match and to wait to see how things planned out. My Mum and Dad were a bit worried as, like me, they didn’t know how these things worked. I never really used agents, so I didn’t know what was happening. So I have left out the next game, and the West Ham manager John Lyall had come to that game to see me play. Billy Kirkwood took my place for that match and had an outstanding game. John Lyall could just as quickly have signed Kirky based on that performance alone! Luckily a fan in the stand said to Lyall if you think Kirkwood’s good you should see Raymond Stewart. Things could have turned out so differently after that game. There were a lot of discussions between the two clubs over the deal, and they eventually agreed on the transfer fee and also arranged a friendly match between the sides as a way of giving United a bit more money on top of the transfer. I remember at the friendly game I went in for a challenge on Willie Pettigrew and ended up breaking his collarbone. Wee Jim was going crazy at me on the sidelines at that!  John Lyall went over the details of the deal with me as I didn’t have an agent and he kept me right. He promised me that as soon as I got my first Scotland cap we’d rip up that contract and I’d be rewarded with a new improved one. True to his word, and the gentleman that he was, I made my debut for Scotland on Saturday and first thing Monday morning on my return to Upton Park he called me into his office and gave me the new contract. Dundee United got good money for me, and it was the move I was happy with. I’ll always have huge respect for Jim McLean, and I’ll always remember him getting quite emotional when he wished me all the best when I left the club.

Q: Was the idea of moving to a big London club for the record transfer fee a daunting prospect for a 19-year-old lad from Stanley?

A: I never really gave the transfer fee much thought. That was between the clubs. John Lyall kept me in London for 6 weeks before I got a break and had the chance to head back home in Scotland for a few days. I’d had time to settle in by then. If I’d gone back up North after that first week, I might not have gone back to London! I wasn’t too nervous about the move. I knew I was getting the chance to play alongside great players like Trevor Brooking, Phil Parkes who was the record signing for a goalkeeper, Frank Lampard and Billy Bonds. These guys have become friends for life, and I still keep in touch with a lot of the West Ham boys. It was a different world coming to London at that age, but like I said I always wanted to prove myself at a high level. I’d have felt a failure if I’d not tested myself down there.

Q: You’re famous for scoring 81 penalties for West Ham. Did Hamish McAlpine give you any tips on taking the perfect penalty?

A: He did actually! He was taking a few at that time, and we had a similar technique in that we used power to score. I was always about drilling the ball hard into the net at that time, but I also then learned to control it more through practising. I’m proud that I scored that many at West Ham.

Q: You were included in the all-time West Ham XI when the club left Upton Park to relocate to the new stadium. How proud a moment was that for you?

A: It was special. From where I came from to eventually being in the best XI was amazing, and that’s something I’ll always have. It’s a proud moment to look back on. I see the likes of Andy Robertson at Liverpool and how well he’s doing. I think it’s great when someone can rise through the ranks and achieve success like that. His United connection will always be there, and it’s incredible how far you can go in this game. I still do a lot of work with West Ham, and it’s a great honour to be remembered by such a great club.

Q: How do you look back on your time at Dundee United?

A: I loved playing at United and had a lot of great memories. It gave me the skills and experience which then led me to even greater things. It was a real learning curve with Wee Jim, and it was a team that just got better and better. My defining moment was probably winning the Young Player of the Year award, but I enjoyed being part of it all and getting the chance to play football.